The Good, Bad, Nice Guys:
<—(Ignore the title of the video: Kezia Noble: Official videos and articles) FYI: Did NOT interview Kezia.
The following Individual that I’ve interviewed hasn’t been publicized and wanted to be privatized and for the purpose of the interview, I’ve used her Nickname [or Stage Name].
The Purpose of The Interview: To reveal the actions and the truth about the Bad, the Ugly, and The Good in This World where Majority of The Bad Apples show up in Mainstream Media
The Interview goes as follows:
Hi Lady Electric,
Saw your comments on a Global News article in regards to PUA and how not all are bad as society and media portrays the industry, professionals, affiliations to be merely bad apples. When in reality, there are good people involved for the right reasons.
In your posted comments, you had mentioned how you’re directly involved with the communities and how everybody can benefit from learning and experiencing the tools. I have a website, blog, and social media pages on attraction, social confidence, emotional awareness, and social intelligence from moral and ethical perspectives and practices.
Looking for diverse experiences from many people that came across PUA directly or indirectly to post on my blog, social media pages, and website with their full permission. Would you like to write me a testimonial of your experiences you may have had whether they were good, bad, or ugly? Please leave out names for privacy sake. I’ll use alternative names (made up) when posting such testimonials. Also, can I use your comment on Global News Article about how the term of pick up is ambiguous, we use it everyday, it’s used in sales, and so forth?
Great to see that there are those who are more than intelligent to see that not everybody is to be brushed in the same way as the rest.
What’s a PUA? Just kidding. Thanks for writing. Could you send me a link to your website/blog please? I’ve recently retired from “the game” as I’ve just finish a 7 year contract with “He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named” Father I call Josh Reffries haha. Actually it’s incredibly likely I have the *best story in the entire community but I would never write about it on my own. Too ugly, gruesome, hideous. Perhaps after the old dragon dies or if I had a hypnotist army (I actually do, seriously!). And yet I’ve been involved since 2007, I’m a freaking saint in comparison, which is partly why I felt inclined to comment on the News article. I can write a lot about seduction, not about my personal experiences but about the techniques, learning process, community, etc. I hate to break it to the world but the community is full of sociopath/psychopaths with the intent to take advantage of others, either for money or sex. These techniques are extremely powerful and effective, so all the more reason for every kind-hearted person to learn, wouldn’t you agree? That being said you are right, not everyone is an sick, manipulative, selfish-centered meanie. There are a lot of really nice students and few good coaches like myself but the community needs to come together and decide what we will stand for in regards to moral and ethical treatment and what is flat out unacceptable. Until better organization happens everyone gets lumped in a ball, which keeps the bad guys in business and the good guys at a disadvantage. Are we superheros or super-villains? That is the question! lol
Hi Lady Electric,
Just saw only, ‘What’s a PUA?’ for a second and you almost got me, ahaha. Thanks for getting back to me. Here’s my:
Also, have Google Plus Account and Page under The Moral Compass of Attraction and Social Adaptation Title and email is email@example.com. Hope you enjoy it! Accepting feedback.
Wow, Ross Jeffries of Speed Seduction and The God Father. That’s amazing! [Attempting Optimism] I’m sure you have amazing stories. I hear JB in RSD is a really a good guy according to some people’s experiences with him while learning about Growth, Dating and Relationships [not condoning any of his actions in any size, shape, or form over his disrespectful posts on twitter]…just that his marketing strategy was obviously very immoral, unethical, irrational and socially taboo. Can’t confirm it though and definitely don’t endorse his media posts regarding to you know what. Yes, personal experiences don’t have to be included. I respect that. From professional, learning, systematic and experiencing curves are what I’m looking for at all angles (not tunnel vision- out of context or one sided isn’t my style since full disclosure and openness on the good and the bad [open book] is necessary- complete honesty and authenticity.
So, it seems my suspicious observations and instinct for the industry are true based on your words that there are many, whom are sociopaths and/or psychopaths with the intent to be manipulative. It’s ironic how you mention taking advantage for money or sex as I mention that in my WordPress Blog under Ethics and Morals: The Players in Personal Growth or Emotional Awareness and Social Intelligence- The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly.
Yes, I do, believe they’re very influential whether it’s for good or bad purposes regardless of who exercises these skills. Based on my experiences though, many of the people that I have came across in the industry whom themselves are curious, clients/students, or instructors are very good professionally and personally speaking. They had and have good intentions and it shows through their words and actions. Many of the males and females that I’ve seen interested in receiving assistance are the following types with utmost respect of course (no labeling intended): from the shy individuals, to the introverted, to the good people that are looking for more than just a good time by establishing and maintaining fulfilling relationships whether that be sexual, platonic, family-oriented, personal and/or professional incentives or contexts. I’ve read some statistics that suggest 70-90% were looking towards gaining social skills to getting a lover/partner to a wife to other meaningful relationships while the 20-40% were into it for superficial and manipulative gains.
Absolutely agree with your last five premises about the good and the bad and the outcome.
Appreciate your insight,
With utmost sincerity,
Luke, thanks for the speedy reply. You are too nice. Honestly. JB or Josh Reffries might be wonderful people and nice to their friends and families but the point is reputation is everything in this community and the community needs a better reputation. Marketing or real immoral techniques, abusing anyone are just wrong and it’s giving the good guys a bad name so we need to draw the line clearly if we don’t want to be labeled sociopaths ourselves. I assure you there are more good people in the world then bad but the bad people hold the majority of control/power and unfortunately this subject draws out every sociopath on the internet. I think your Ethics and Morals Blog is brilliant for that reason, we need more people writing about the importance of good vs bad in the community. You have my permission to post anything I’ve written or write to you on there using the name Lady Electric.
There’s a lot of material on seduction. It’s over complicating a simple subject in my opinion. Everything in life takes practice to get good at it. It will benefit people more to get really good at a few things, rather then try to learn everything. I suggest to people they learn 3 simple things when starting off. Practice until it’s totally natural, unconscious, so they don’t even have to think. Then go learn more if they want.
1. Peacock (stand out from the crowd).
2. Value Build (talk about friends and family and hobbies rather than cars and money).
3. Qualify (Be the one asking most of the questions, like a police officer).
That’s it. Simple PUA 101. All anyone really needs to know to get intensely good at the subject. The key is practice.
Other than that I recommend Instant Rapport by Michel Brooks and My Voice Will Go With You by Sidney Rosen as books that are actually NLP and hypnosis books but will take people a lot further with seduction.
Vin Dicarlo’s Pandoras Box System is fun.
Love Johnny Soporno’s Intro to Seductive Reasoning. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1R-hxqhJls8
For advanced students learn semantics and pragmatics – linguistic kung fu =}
Forget October Man and go for February Man! lol
Hey Lady Electric,
Didn’t think I was being too nice. Just don’t want to make a false allegation without legitimate and full honesty of real evidence. The media and society does have a reputation for taking things out of context, exaggerating, and basically blowing things out of proportion. Now, I’m not defending or supporting evil-doers in any size, shape, or form. Quite the contrary, would like to have the full pictures before coming to a reasonable and ethical conclusion. In the cases, the truly guilty are found and discovered or not, justice has to be served. Can’t have wrongfully accused cases occurring because that can ruin an individual’s or groups organizations’ name that would have otherwise been leading towards success and making the difference.
Fortunately, you’re right! There are more good in the world than the bad or the ugly. On the other hand, just like you mentioned there are the abusers that hold more influence into what we believe, think, see, and listen to. On the up said, the good rather than doing nothing, they (not saying we to not brag) do something about it and keep doing what they were doing by motivating and inspiring others through morals and ethics. If one stands for nothing, that individual will fall for anything or anybody.
Thank you, much appreciate it. Through my research and examinations, as I posted in the blog (recommendations), have come across great companies and individuals that truly do make a good impact into dating, relationships and other involved human connections.
Thanks for the 3 suggestions for beginners.
In terms of peacock theory to successfully be implemented and practiced, noticed that it works when non-verbal, verbal and fashion or style are congruently united. One can’t work effectively without the others.
As for value and rapport building, the concentration definitely is on personality, energy, character, experiences, perspectives, values/beliefs and so forth. Internal demonstration rather than external performance. Qualification is excellence when it has flow, smooth, and sincere motivations and execution in the process.
Practice does make improvement, especially when done right and intelligently. However, mistakes have value too in that they give experience, knowledge, and insightful wisdom.
Ah, haven’t heard of Michel Brooks and Sidney Rosen. Thanks for the information. Soporno’s materials are amazing!
Lady Electric: Awesome, ya Soporno is a hero. I don’t like to say bad things about people so I’m not going to name names on the many well known coaches I’ve worked with over the years in LA, Vegas, Vancouver, Halifax, Mexico, England who are completely unethical and downright abusive so you’ll have to trust me there are tons out there. The books are a both a pretty easy and entertaining read. I’m not sure if you’ve ever heard of the forbidden October Man sequence but it was stolen from February Man, pretty much all NLP and seduction come from hypnosis techniques by Milton H. Erickson. Erickson had a female client who had been abused. He did hypnotic therapy with her every February for years just to let her unconscious know after the winter comes spring. October Man is just the opposite – taking control of a female, from fall to winter. There are many evil techniques in seduction, many sections promoting female sex slavery, brainwashing, psychical, sexual and emotional abuse. I’ve seen first hand and personally been involved with this community for many years and I have zero tolerance for disrespect towards others, specially females. Objectifying is bad enough, anyone who’s using abuse techniques to promote their work deserves to be outcast from the community or even the country – flat out. We don’t tolerate racism, we shouldn’t tolerate misogyny, All people should be treated with respect. It’s that easy.
You also can’t control the entire world and there will always be bad guys so it’s best to educate everyone for self betterment, enhancing relationships and also protection.
Luke: He is! Yeah, I know what you mean and agree. Where there’s light, there’s darkness. Unfortunately, one can’t exist without the other. Remember both techniques being mentioned in The Game, N. Strauss’s book. Familiar with NLP and Hypnosis as they were both taught in lectures throughout a course I took on campus. The ethical dilemmas and authenticity issues are prevalently in existence. To name some- hypnosis can implement memories in that otherwise naturally somebody wouldn’t have or on the upside (including NLP) can have wondrous therapeutic success especially when stresses and habits are involved. In NLP, don’t find the eye gazing tells in relation to deception red flags being effective. Rather observe and deduce facial expressions, body language, and verbal communication once seeing things in clusters and establishing congruence or picking up on inconsistencies (verbal and nonverbal) and checking out the context in the way communication is being displayed. Anyways, great to know and see like-minded and moral beings that don’t tolerate abuse in any size, shape, or form are around to speak up and take action, especially in a world where things appear to be mostly surrounded by manipulative practitioners. Intolerating bad, ugly, evil (however one describes such) brings out the social justice activists in our humanity! Absolutely, respect and integrity. We’re all human beings wanting and needing to connect on such deeper levels that we must remember the golden rule (rule of thumb) which is Respectfulness.
Lady Electric: It’s a pleasure, Luke. Hope someday we cross paths, would be nice to meet you in person. You have a fantastic smile by the way!
Luke: It’s an honour to have spoken about this with you from all sides of the spectrum in terms of the dark and good sides (pros and cons). What if the industry, and its services were strictly and professionally regulated by investigators and other moral/ethical officials to the highest degree? Also, what advice do you have for those that know of this social universe and are reluctant to seek the services and goods provided by the professionals they approach? The hesitant decision may be due to what he or she heard in terms of the ethical dilemmas. Otherwise, they would have quickly sought out help to improve and evolve themselves, their lifestyles and relationships. He or she as the customer being the shy, awkward, introverted, or oblivious and good person type or those looking to gain social and communications to more fulfilling relationships whether that be romantic to deeply loving kinds at any stage. Including those that want to be the best version of themselves and are struggling on how to go about accomplishing and maintaining their authenticity because they’re stuck in the deadly comfort zone or they don’t seem to be moving forward in any way. By the way, thanks for the compliment.
Lady Electric: I know it is already somewhat regulated and should be even more so, but as far as moral to the highest degree this becomes a bit tricky or complicated. It’s all about intent. It might be okay to perhaps be somewhat unethical in certain circumstances if it’s for the greater good. For example, if one wants to quit smoking, causing them to feel sick when they inhale cigarette smoke might be considered unethical but it could be an effective measure if they have tried every other method and failed. I don’t think you can generalize and say “as long as you leave the person better off than when you found them”. I think it greatly depends on the situation and the people involved.
As for advice on people reluctant to learn (like my mother haha), I say perhaps it’s not for everyone but understanding is protection. Since it can and is often used as psychological weaponry, used by the media, sales, lawyers, politicians, military etc., becoming more and more common these days, learning is our only defense.
Also enhancing communication skills are only going to better ones life in all areas. It should be taught in high-school, as a life skills-communications course. Useful skills students can apply to everyday life no matter what direction they decide to go in afterwards.
As far as ethical dilemmas, I really like this question. It’s important because I think almost everyone starting out has to cross this barrier because most of us have been taught since we were children that manipulation is wrong/bad. However, if you are gifting people positive suggestions or causing them to enhance their lives you are doing them a great benefit. It’s all about *intent. You decide how you will use it, which is essential to understand because I want my students to feel good about what they are doing. Feeling good will give them extra motivation to learn, practice and get out there, putting their skills in motion in real life circumstances.
For shy, introverted people or for people with social anxiety, there are many ways to overcome this and be more opened/outgoing but by far the best way is simply putting yourself out there. Talking to a few new people everyday, even if it’s just hi with a smile or small chat about the weather, and realizing it’s just a numbers game because no matter how wonderful someone is they will not get along with everyone. The more one does this though, the easier it gets. Usually everyone feels a bit awkward at first but it doesn’t take long for people to become confident talking to strangers or even publicly and it’s a skill worthwhile developing because humans are naturally social creatures – the more interpersonal relationships we have the more enhanced our lives tend to be, so this type of social confidence can really change ones life.
As for people wanting to be their best versions of themselves start of by defining or creating a map of exactly where you are at and where you want to be. Don’t worry about how you will get there at first, just focus on where you want to go. That’s the biggest step. Often that’s enough because our subconscious will figure out the route for us on it’s own if it knows the target. However you can further this by setting small achievable goals that will get you there. I’m also a big fan of “fake it till you make it” attitude. Just pretend or take a ten minutes daily visualizing how you want things to be for yourself. You’ll be amazed how well this works, how little effort it takes and how fun it is too! =}
Luke: Wow, multiple sound advice right there! Absolutely agree that it’s all about intent and of one’s state of mind and actions for prosperity. Some those that become committed and passionate practitioners do become very confident and competent in their life. I believe it transcends beyond pick up, attraction, seduction, social interactions and certain principles can be applied throughout any interactions that involves human beings connecting and communicating with each other. The learned and developed communication skills can definitely be applied appropriately and universally in any context.
You said early that you worked directly with the community, some of the professionals (instructors) and in numerous of countries. What were your positions? If you call yourself a PUA, is that what your position was? Or, do you refer to some other terminology? I.e. Dating/Relationship/Life Coach, Body Language/Communications Expert, or other.
Lady Electric: 7 year contract with old Josh Reffries, plus been training since age 12. I can’t really talk about our contract yet but I had the position of female superhero or secret agent spy, doing vigilante work. Not all glitz and glamour though, taking down dangerous criminals the police wouldn’t be able to catch. Vince Kelvin, Bad Boy, Nathan Shapiro, Jersey Boy PUA, Anthony Jacquin, Vince Lynch and Headhacking, Harry Nichols, Justin Tranz, Anthony Cools, Marc Savard, Jake Shannon, Bob The Hypno Hammer, Richard Anthony, Igor A. Ledochowski, hundreds of others, too many to list, Like Helen of Troy, 1000’s ships at my command. Haha, like my own hypno army! It’s not my intent to come off as bragging but it’s true. I have yet to meet anyone with a life more exciting than mine. Not an easy job though, I’m happy to retire. You can see why I feel so strongly about morals when it comes to persuasion.
I usually don’t tell people I’m a super hero. I go by dating coach, teach communications, sales. I downplay as much as possible cause it tends to make people uncomfortable until I start getting into the techniques, then they are usually hooked, but there are some who just don’t want anything to do with it and will resist as much as possible. I’m usually impressed with people resist me, makes me smile.
Just want to be clear Reffries isn’t a good guy, he had me tortured for years “getting the bad guys”, luckily hypnotist community are on my side, not all PUAs are evil as hell but in my experience most are. Kezia Noble and most respectable coaches like Johnny Soporno distance themselves from PUA’s. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5shi5cBamMc
Luke: That’s a lot of people. Yes, I noticed a lot of people are either very interested or very resistant of learning about it prior to the techniques or when they are discussed. Kezia Noble does seem to be legitimate and she sees herself as a coach not a PUA. Interesting interview with Johnny.
Thank You for the Interview, Lady Electric!
Here’s Lady Electric’s Comments on an article posted on a news website regarding The Ethical dilemma’s of Pick Up Artistry
1. As a female who’s been directly involved in the Pick Up Artist community for many years and has also experienced this type of abuse first hand from some members, I don’t want to see Canadians support Violence Against Women, domestic abuse or any other type hate groups. Unfortunately this type of thing is all too common in the PUA community, which is now very large, yes it’s a global mini-subculture of people using advanced psychology techniques. The PUA community doesn’t have to be a mean, degrading, hate filled group. I would like to see both men and women benefit from learning how to communicate effectively, exploring the psychology of sexual views in society, how we get along, etc. The misogynists/abusers are giving the community a bad name and it should fight to protect its reputation, appealing to the public to attract new members so everyone has the benefit of learning how to better themselves and relationships with one another in a healthy, positive way. It’s important Canadians show zero tolerance for violence towards any person. We are a safe country, proud to put humanity first, that’s one of the many traits that makes Canada so wonderful.
2. The term “pick up” is ambiguous and really what does the name have to do with the price of tea in china? Pick Up is simply a technology that can be used for either good or bad depending on ones intent. As for manipulating people (or ourselves to get a response) we do it all the time, consciously or unconsciously. But I bet if anyone had to speak publicly they would do what they could knowingly to make sure the speech went well. Eye contact with the audience, a warm smile, good posture, maybe a joke here or there. We dress up nice to go to work, learn manners so people think of us as polite. What’s the difference? This subject teaches people (often ones who genuinely struggle) a more effective way to interact or communicate. Personally I think everyone should learn the skills, for protection (yes these techniques are used in sales and marketing all the time – *buy now you should be getting my point haha), with all the swindling and seducing learning for protection seems intelligent but more importantly we can all better ourselves by learning how to communicate more effectively. Believe it or not, being a good listener, paying close attention on how to read people, not just communicating what you want to get across but understanding how it’s being interpreted, are all skills most people just don’t naturally possess, we need to learn them. We can’t just throw out the baby with the bath water, there’s insightful information in the Pick Up community that helps a lot of people for the better, stronger communications skills can lead to more fulfilling relationships. That’s why it’s such a shame abusers are ruining it for the public.